Saturday, March 24, 2012

Abortion.........................

The queen gives me her blessing on my political endeavors, and quickly states that I would never survive a debate. Not because of my lack of overall knowledge, but as she puts it, "You have no filter."

So let's jump into the fire. I am going to pick a topic, then explain my belief on the matter and why I feel that way. I am looking for feedback, and questions. What I am looking to accomplish is that perfect blend of Democratic and Republican votes. Here we go.....................................................

Abortion..... My stance is simple, and driven by personal experiences. Abortion should remain legal. This one is actually simple to me. A lot of people who believe in Right of Life, also believe in less Government. However, you can not argue for less government intrusion (As I will), and then argue for the government to pass laws telling women what they can't do with their bodies. There are many times that an abortion is a thought out decision, that a couple makes because of health concerns, for Mother and child. In the case of Rape, come on. I can only imagine that a rape victim is scarred for the remainder of their life. You want them to carry a product of Hate and torture around in their womb for nine months. Honestly, in a perfect world, some forms of abortion would be legal, and some illegal. But that would just create a whole new Governmental nightmare.

Less government intrusion, that is my belief. I start out by saying that abortion should remain legal. Let's proceed with some questions.

26 comments:

  1. Jon,
    I respect your opinion.

    Check-out this video:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKyljukBE70

    Then we will continue.

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  2. One more thing. Check this out:

    http://thpatriots.blogspot.com/2012/03/award-winning-documentary-180-movie.html

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  3. H/Nox- I watched both videos. So let's proceed.

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  4. Johnny,

    If a woman can do as she pleases with her body, why can't a man? If a man wants to put his parts in a woman's parts, without her consent, he should be able to, right? Wrong. Because his rights end where the woman's rights begin. Same with the fetus. Why don't we allow women to inject heroin into there bodies? It's their body, right?

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  5. T- You know I love ya brother, but that argument is ridiculous. Americans can not afford for the government to tell them what they can and can't do with their bodies. If we allow this, where does it end? I understand where your beliefs come from, I really do. I am sympathetic to the unborn child as well. But someone says abortion, and people automatically assume it's some whore who did not use birth control. This is not always the case.

    Let's say, Mrs. Tenth was pregnant. Both of you were informed that the child had a degenerative disease, and would not live past 1 year of age. Now, throw in the fact that giving birth to this child could endanger your beloved's life. Whatever decision you and your wife made would be personal, and your decision to make. If their was a ban on abortion, it would no longer be you decision to make. It would be made by the Federal government.

    T, that's just not right, and you know it. As I said, I know you're a religious man with deep values. I commend you for it. But, not all women seeking an abortion, are welfare, shitbag whores. Nor are they stupid teenage assholes, who were too embarrassed to purchase condoms. Some of them are wives, and Mothers, who have thought about it for a long time, and make a decision on what they think is best for them and their families. At least they have that choice.

    And,,,,, We do allow women to inject Heroin into their bodies. Vicodin, Oxycodone, it's all based on opium. One is bought on the street, the other is prescribed by Doctors. What makes one different than the other?

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  6. Johnny,

    Abortion like all Liberal solutions attacks the wrong end of the problem with an exceptionally bad idea. There were abortions conducted in the United States before the Roe vs. Wade blew the doors off our National sanity. We went from a policy that might have been too restrictive in some cases to unrestricted barbarism. We’ve now allowed the death of more than 54,000,000 babies since 1973.

    The explosion of immorality and personal irresponsibility in the sixties gave rise to a predictable problem – pregnancy outside of marriage. We should aggressively address that problem as preventing unwanted pregnancies would reduce the need to murder babies in the womb later. The same is true for rapists and other sexual miscreants – we need appropriate punishments that would deter the crime or take the criminal out of the system permanently. I find executing a rapist preferable to killing an innocent in the womb. The old “an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.”

    As a practical matter I don’t think that we can abolish abortion overnight – it just won’t happen and as you note there is justification for it in some cases. However I think we can curb some of the more barbaric practices like late term abortions. I can’t even get my arms around how anyone, particularly a “doctor” could perform such a procedure. You might ask yourself if you could sit through watching a “doctor” locate the head of your potential child or grandchild in the womb so that they could plunge a suction probe into that baby’s head to kill it. Illinois State Senator Barack H. Obama even went so far as to say that a child born of a botched late term abortion could be left to die or killed by a “doctor” because the original intent of the mother was to terminate the pregnancy. Note to Obama – no matter what you think, when a baby emerges into the world – that baby is a citizen with all the rights and privileges the rest of us have to “Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness.”

    I wish that the government could get out of the business altogether but that just isn’t feasible. The problem is that we can’t have a sane discussion about this with a liberal in the room. We’ve instituted some pretty sane measures in Virginia yet liberals go crazy any time any measure addresses this National tragedy.

    Carthage was thought to have practiced a religion that relied on child sacrifice and we consider that barbaric – 54,000,000 babies later – are we any less so? I think that this is the moral dilemma of our age.

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  7. Why can't I smother Grandpa with a pillow? Hell, he's gonna die soon anyway.

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  8. Jon,
    I respect your position regarding a fetus with a degenerate disease. That's a tough one. I probably would opt for termination to save the pain and suffering of the child.

    That said, I know a couple who was told repeatedly that their unborn baby was retarded. To their credit they had the baby anyway. The baby was born perfectly NORMAL despite what all the tests indicated. The baby is now a happy and healthy 3 year old boy. Amazing isn't it?

    Our societal problems stem from this abortion issue as CS pointed out.

    I am not against the morning after pill as mistakes can happen but I am appalled by the notion of terminating a life that is a fully formed human baby.

    We are upside down in our value system. How is it that a baby is only viable when the mother determines its right to life but a driver who kills a pregnant women is charged with a double homicide?

    Finally, how anyone can condone late term or partial birth abortion is beyond my ability to comprehend.

    Choice? It's murder, plain and simple. Any other description is dishonest.

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  9. Jon,
    I've changed my position.

    In light of recent events, I am now a staunch advocate for abortion, gay marriage, contraception by any means, and sterilization but only for liberals.

    In a generation or two liberals will be gone.

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  10. TGP- If Grandpa is terminally ill, and in constant severe pain, I would not look down upon you. I do believe there is a time and place for assisted suicide. But that can be a whole other discussion.

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  11. My point, Johnny, is that we have drawn lines. We drew lines on marriage when we let Utah into the union. We drew lines on euthenasia, but we refuse to apply even logic. Abortion is murder. Call it what it is, and most people will "choose" not to do it. Call it a "choice" and people will ease their consciences with the approval of society. Abortion is bad, and its wrong, and every case of rape, incest, or endangering the life of the mother could be settled without a blanket "get out of responsibility" card.

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  12. CS- I can not comment on what happened during the 60's or 70's for obvious reasons. I will admit that I do not understand Roe V. Wade. I haven't even looked it up. I did a little research. I will try to explain to you as best I can. Remember, I don't know if I'm Republican, or a Democrat. But it's votes from people like you that I will be trying to receive. Not because you're conservative. But because you all seem to have compassion, and a deep love of this country of ours.

    Starting from now, abortion is legal, even late term. As I said, I wholeheartidly agree that abortion should remain legal for cases of rape and incest. Also in cases of extreme health concerns for Mother, or quality of life of child.
    I would love to say that cases of abortion due to whoops!, or I changed my mind should be illegal. My problem is how do you outlaw one without the other?

    I guess you could, but would it not create some bullshit panel, which would include a whole bunch of bureaucratic governmental jobs, that most likely would be attained by a friend of a friend, who did not even graduate High School? I'm not down with that my friend. We need to lessen Government.

    "We should aggressively address that problem as preventing unwanted pregnancies would reduce the need to murder babies in the womb later." With this statement, would you agree for Government supplied birth control? I believe in educating our youth in STD's and pregnancy. Full information about birth control. We could discuss that. I know most of us would prefer abstinence. In regards to the Princess, I'm all about it. But we need to realize that our Children will eventually have sex. Humans are one of only two species of animal that has sex for pleasure. It's going to happen. So, I'm all for the educating and advocating of birth control.

    Late term abortion? That's tricky. I think it should be banned. The problem is, I would have to talk to some Doctors in regards to quality of life issues not found prior to 20 weeks. The research I did on some medical websites, puts viability somewhere between 19 and 22. In my opinion, if a child can live outside the womb, it should not be terminated. But I'm not sure if debilitating, or degenerative issues can develop after that time. So I would need to look into that one.

    As far as morality, we can't judge Brother. Your morals might differ from mine, which might differ from hers. We can not ask the Government to police Morality. It will not end well. For the record, the Princess was born out of wedlock, to a woman who is not my Queen. Personally, I think we're doing just fine. Might not be your morals, and that's cool. But it more than works for us.

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  13. T- I children being children at 20 weeks. From the research I did, that's when a child has the possibility of living outside the womb. So, for a women to abort a 5 week pregnancy, I just don't see it as murder. Do I see it as wrong? Maybe, but it depends on the circumstances. If a 21 year old welfare queen goes to a doctor for an abortion because, "She doesn't have the time to be a Mother", hell yes it's wrong. But as I told CS, we the people, must draw the line in regards to Government in our lives.

    I'm guessing that women who choose to abort their fetus because they were raped, or because the child would not enjoy the 8 months it was given to live, are not looking to ease their conscience. It is a decision, that they will live with for the rest of their life. Wrong, or right, they should have that option.

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  14. H/Nox- I am very happy that everything worked out for the couple that you know.

    I disagree about our societal problems. I think more problems are caused by welfare recipients receiving extra money by the Government for their "Wanted" kids. That's a whole other discussion.

    I too am appalled by late-term abortion. After some reviews and meetings with medical practitioners, I would have no problem banning late-term abortion.

    Don't get mad, but with my beliefs, a 20 week old fetus being terminated due to the murder of the Mother would not be a murder count.

    It's Murder after 20 weeks.

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  15. Great debate everyone. Keep it going. I'm trying to garner the votes of Americans like you. How would I be doing so far? Be honest, because I am taking this seriously.

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  16. Jon,
    Say what you want about viability. If a lifeform has a beating heart it is a life. With human babies I believe that is at 12 weeks.

    Please review the second video again.

    With regards to society CS was referring to our penchant for convenience which is so prevalent today with everything.

    Today, if it is not convenient then get rid of it or change it. Few do the tough stuff anymore.

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  17. Jon,

    When that egg splits, and the fetus has 46 chromosomes, its DNA is human. Therefore, it is a human being. Killing it is murder. I'm not going to back away from that point. A zygote is a human, life begins at conception, abortion is taking life, innocent life. If there is a God, then it is the ultimate sin. If there is no God (hypothetically), then what is the difference in murder, or execution, or manslaughter. Abortion is wrong, in all its forms.

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  18. TGP & H/Nox- Women who have a severe health risk of birth, or are impregnated through rape should have the option to have the pregnancy terminated. We should not ban abortion.

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  19. Johnny,

    Don't call it abortion. A medical procedure needed to save a life is a different subject.

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  20. Jon,
    I don't have a problem with those conditions. I do with the others.

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  21. Johnny,

    Sorry to be gone from the discussion - life has been brutally busy lately.

    There are any number of things that the medical community does not do - that they could do - but don't. We don't need the government involved. These whacky liberals (democrats, socialists, progressives, whatever) have blown open any kind of thoughtful, moral approach to life. We have to get it back.

    I don't judge about children born outside the bounds of marriage. With that said - the most important and most successful social program existent is the family. If you and the queen hold it together for a life time - God Bless you. However the biggest single common denominator for our prison population is not race, economic background, or IQ - it's that most prisoners were brought up in single parent households. People are failing and our cites are crumbling right along with the American family.

    But think about it - Steve Jobs was an unwanted pregnancy though his mother delivered the baby and gave him up for adoption. What would the world have been like had Jobs been aborted? But Jobs was just a couple years younger than me and was born in an age when inconvenient babies couldn't be murdered in the womb.

    54,000,000 Babies in the United States alone since Rove v Wade. What's the chance that one of those babies might have grown up to be the Steve Jobs of energy? Or the Steve Jobs of medicine? What if one of those babies had coded into his or her DNA the cure for cancer?

    Forget the fact that it is plain wrong - what have we lost?

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  22. H/Nox- I understand the problem you have with the other conditions. Unfortunately, we can't have one without the other. Unless we add more Government positions, which I am not willing to do.

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  23. CS- Good point. Are you against homosexuals adopting? Because, I've heard the same argument before. However, those conservatives seem dead-set against homosexuals adopting, which would be a multi-parent family unit.

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  24. Johnny,

    I see no benefit to society or the child in question to allow homosexuals to adopt.

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  25. Or to marry. It is the belittling of our traditional families that is eroding the greatness of America. Allowing homos to marry only further denigrates the sacrament of marriage.

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  26. CS & TGP- We will get to the Homosexual issues on another post. Thanks again for your input.

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